The Moos Room™

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Dr. Joe Armstrong: Hey, everyone, this is Dr. Joe Armstrong. Just want to remind you if you have ideas for the show, comments, questions for us, anything, send them to the moosroom@umn.edu. That's T-H-E-M-O-O-S-R-O-O-M @ U-M-N dot E-D-U. Thanks again for listening. Stay safe out there. Welcome back to the Moos Room. We are talking about dairy scours this week. Last week we talked about general scours, and hopefully, everyone had a chance to listen to that, but this week we're talking about dairy calves and we'll get to beef at a later time in another episode. Big takeaways from last week on the general scours episode.
We're talking about colostrum being the most important thing you can do for those calves, quality, and how much they get, quantity. Then health and nutrition being second, and then cleanliness, keeping everything clean and dry. Those are the big three things you have to think about. We're going to do some things specific to dairy and talk about some recommendations on the dairy. Unfortunately, Brad's here, who does run a dairy. Emily grew up on a dairy, so we have some experts to tell us what to do and how they do things in the real world, so it's not just an ivory tower talking at you.
Let's get to how much we feed calves, because that's really, really important. Feeding calves and keeping them at the correct nutritional plane so they can grow, grow their immune system, have some body fat reserves to fight off any infection that they do see is very important. Brad, what is your goal when you're feeding calves? How much should that calf eat?
Brad: Well, when you're talking colostrum, I think they need at least a gallon of colostrum relatively soon after birth, as soon as you can. I know that's not possible on every farm, but as fast as you can get the colostrum, the better off, and a lot of it. After that-
Dr. Joe: [crosstalk] doing another colostrum feeding or two colostrum at the next feeding?
Brad: We do, yes. We feed another feeding of colostrum, you could call it second colostrum, I guess, at the second feeding, yes. Probably six to eight hours later.
Dr. Joe: Last episode you said that you're using a refractometer to test that colostrum. We should probably go over those numbers quick, using a brick scale, right?
Brad: We're using a brick scale. It's a digital refractometer that we measure colostrum quality on every calf or for every calf. Usually, it's tough. Below 18, 19, we don't try and feed that, or maybe you might add some colostrum replacer to it. Typically, we see that in heifers, really. We see that in heifers a lot, where the colostrum quality is low.
Dr. Joe: I think most of the research that we see on the bricks and what relates to good quality colostrum is we're seeing a cutoff in that 22 to 23 is the number that's used to feed heifer calves colostrum. Like Brad said, if you get much below 18, 19, it's really a hard push to feed that to any calf.
Brad: One thing just popped into my head, a lot of things do, a lot of researchers in the US here, we're really looking at colostrum and how to increase colostrum yield. There's a circadian rhythm. You'll see colostrum yield and quality go down in the winter time, and that's all over the US. Nobody really knows why it might happen. Does it have to do with the daylight hours, whatever? There's a lot of people trying to look at colostrum and how to increase yield and quality of it because we know it's so important to calves.
Dr. Joe: Yes, it's massive for calves. How about after colostrum, how much-
Emily: Wait, I have a question.
Dr. Joe: Uh-oh, Emily needs to-- Emily has something.
Emily: I have not talked yet, so let me talk. Question for you, Brad and Joe both. I've seen a presentation in the past by Dr. Jeremy Schefers with the [unintelligible 00:04:30] School and he has talked about making colostrum cubes. Actually, using extra colostrum that's left over that is good quality, freezing it in ice cube trays, and then supplementing calves after they've had their initial gallon or so of colostrum. Then just if they're getting a bottle or something of milk or milk replacer, tossing a few of those cubes in there.
Now, of course, I know that critical time is as soon as possible after the calf is born when we're talking passive immunity transfer and all that good stuff, but have you heard similar things like that? Would you say that that's a good thing to do? I'm just curious what your opinions are, because this is something I heard about for the first time probably eight years ago and I'm just interested if that has changed or if you know people that have done that and seen good results after that initial big round of colostrum still giving a little dose of it per se here and there with their regular milk that they're taking in.
Dr. Joe: When we're talking about giving those colostrum cubes, it's a good strategy for prevention. It can be a good strategy for treatment as well. Some farmers are doing it by just using waste milk and using that second milking in the waste milk. They are putting some of that second milking or that second colostrum, that transition milk into the hole, but what it's actually doing, the calf's not absorbing those antibodies at all in the colostrum.
There's antibodies floating free in that colostrum and they're binding any bugs that might be in that calf's gut. Instead of that calf absorbing them or them getting attached to the wall, they're getting pushed out the backend already bound up by antibodies. That's the theory behind it. It does work really well, in my opinion. I think it works great, and it's definitely a great option for our organic farmers out there. It's just one more prevention step you can do, because as we all know, if you're going to be organic, you got to take all your prevention steps as you can. Have you used those cubes at all, Brad?
Brad: We have not. We'll freeze colostrum from extra colostrum from cows and use it if possible, but no, we haven't used cubes.
Dr. Joe: Are you using waste milk, though?
Brad: Waste milk, yes, we do.
Dr. Joe: You're probably getting some of that already just by that second milking maybe being in that waste milk. That's cool. How much should we feed calves when we're talking after they've gotten colostrum, they're set up, how much should they get?
Brad: Based on a lot of research that's being happening and even things that we've done at our university dairy, at least six liters, you shouldn't really be giving much less than that. I think maybe the worst thing in the dairy industry is those two-quart calf bottles, you just don't feed those calves enough. If you're using a two-quart bottle twice a day, that's not enough groceries for those calves. They need more than that.
We started that way a long time ago, we've moved to a gallon and a half, now we're at two gallons per day, per calf, and even ad-lib, that's what a lot of people are going to. I believe in at least a gallon and a half per day to get a nice-grown calf that's growing more than a pound and a half a day.
Dr. Joe: I think that's key. We look at average daily gain, and at least to a point, there is a linear connection with lifetime and first lactation performance. For me, that sweet spot is right around between one and a half and 1.8 pounds per day, and that really falls into that doubling worth birth weight by weaning. That also provides that calf with enough groceries, enough energy, enough fat reserves to be able to fight off any bugs that they do see.
If they're limping along on that front and don't have any of that energy reserve to fall back on because we're not feeding enough, then scours becomes a huge issue. I agree. I hate those two-quart bottles, and I haven't successfully convinced anyone to feed the two-quart bottle twice to get to four-quartz. It's just so much work. It doesn't work very well at all.
Brad: I know. That's right.
Dr. Joe: My buddy who has a Jersey dairy, I know we can get 95% of those Jersey calves, those little tiny Jersey calves drinking a gallon twice a day by day five. It's possible, and if we can do it in a Jersey, we should better be able to do it in a Holstein. I think that's the right way to go. Let's ask about it right now while we're on it, how do you feel about ad-lib feeding, Brad? How do we feel about it, or do you know how you feel about it yet?
Brad: Well, I'm not convinced of it yet. I think it's interesting thing that a lot of people are doing in the dairy world. We're trying it on some of our calves, ad-libbing. Most of those calves are drinking 14 liters a day, three, four gallons a day. They'll drink all of that. I think the biggest issue is cost. How much is it going to cost me to feed that calf.
I was at a dairy in Wisconsin last fall that was ad-libbing every single calf. The cost to raise that heifer was well over $2,000 to get into the milking herd. The dairyman thought it was worth it to ad-lib all those calves. I think the jury's still out there, whether ad-lib is a good thing. Man, it grows good calves. We'll get calves weaning off our automatic calf feeder at 275, 300 pounds at eight weeks of age. They are massive calves, but they don't know what to do after they get weaned.
Dr. Joe: Yes.
Brad: All they've done is drink milk their whole life. They don't know how to eat grain. It's tough. Who knows what's going to happen with ad-libbing right now? I think that's a good question.
Dr. Joe: That's good. I've been wondering. I know we had talked a little bit about it in the past, but those are massive calves coming off, and I think there has to be a tipping point in there when you're looking at the economics versus performance, and there's got to be a spot in there where it works. I'm excited that you're looking into that. We're back, I think to the next topic, which is Emily's soapbox issue, which is clean and dry. Everything has to be clean and dry. Walk us through that, Em, on a dairy, where does it need to be clean and dry? I'll just ask you that. I'll set it up on a T for you.
Emily: Everywhere, it needs to be clean and dry. [chuckles] With calves specifically, the areas we really want to focus on would be their direct environment. Whether they're in group pens or they're in hutches or individual pens, whatever you're doing, making sure you're checking bedding, making sure they have enough bedding. I do know that this time of year, if we're talking spring or so, it's maybe a little more wet and we may be tempted, and I know I was tempted growing up on the farm, we had calves in individual pens that I would just toss some extra straw on there. If it's wet underneath that, that extra straw is not going to do anything because you're still going to get wet.
Like I said in the last episode too, just doing a simple kneel test. Get in that pen, kneel down into the bedding. If you stand up and your knees are wet, it's time to change the bedding. That is just a really simple thing to do. At certain times of the year, you might need to use some extra bedding, and I understand that that can be some extra expense, but when we look at the extra expense of if your calf does get scours, little extra beddings probably worth it, at least in my mind. Thinking of environments, and then if you do especially do individual pens, after you've moved those calves out, making sure you're giving that pen a good full cleaning as well before the next one gets in there.
Similarly, Brad brought this up in the last episode too, feeding equipment, all of those things, because so many different things can happen. If you're just not cleaning them, you can get mold growth, you can get biofilm, again, you can get transfer between calves if you just have a stack of buckets that you're using for everybody, or bottles or what have you. Those are really the big ones for me. I tell people, too, use all of your senses. What are you seeing, what are you smelling, even what are you hearing? Really make sure you're also getting down at the calf level.
When you're doing that knee test to check out what the bedding is, give it a sniff down there. Are you smelling a lot of ammonia, other things? Brad is rolling his eyes at me, but I'm sorry, Brad, I like clean, dry areas-
Dr. Joe: I agree.
Emily: -so that I have healthy calves. I feel very passionately about this if you couldn't tell. It's just those little things. I think sometimes those are easy to give those the chop when we're working on all of these other things, but for me, yes, the big ones are bedding and then also whatever equipment you're using on the calves.
Also, I would say be really mindful. I have seen in some barns where cows and calves are kept in close proximity to one another, and if there is a way for your calves to be as separated as possible from your cows, I would encourage you to do that because, again, we just talk about basic immunity, and calves are going to have weaker immune systems than your cows are. It's possible for calves to catch things from cows. If they're kept right in the same barn or in close proximity, that can also be another concern. That's something else that you can look out for too.
Dr. Joe: Em, you hit it right on the head when you're saying everything has to be clean and dry. I think I'm really interested in trying to find those areas that people tend to forget about. One of those areas is the calving pen. That is the first initial exposure for that calf. If you have a calving pen, just because they're not in there very long or they might not be in there for a whole day or however you're going to work it, that's still a source of exposure.
The other place I see a lot of is how the calves are transferred from the calving pen to wherever they're going to spend the next part of their life. I know I've been on several dairies where that has been the source, and eliminating-- Like at one dairy I was at, they transferred the calves from the calving pen to the calf barn in an old wooden trailer that I think when the dairy was built in 1940-something. Same wooden trailer. We just lit a match and burned that thing. We cut the problems by 90% immediately.
Watch out for those things that you may not be thinking about. Like Emily said, everything should be clean and dry as much as you can. Check, calves chew on everything. Like Emily said, when she's kneeling down there doing her sniff test, which Brad was rolling his eyes at, look for any of those things that that calf can chew on because if it can reach it, it's going to chew on it, and that needs to be clean.
Emily: With that, I would remind people to even think about their own clothing and boots, those types of things are basic biosecurity to begin with, but if you are working with a calf and you can tell that they're sick or there's something wrong, you can be the carrier from that calf to another. I know hassle like, "Oh, I got to wash these clothes, whatever," but that's just something to keep in mind, or if you're able to throw on a pair of clean coveralls before you're going into the calving pen to get the newborn calves. Just some of those really basic principles of general biosecurity too, I think can apply here, especially when we think of ourselves and the threat we can pose as well.
Dr. Joe: Absolutely. Now, Brad, when you're cleaning in between calves or in between groups, what are you guys using to clean? Are you using a chemical or anything like that?
Brad: We do use a disinfectant. I would say bleach would be the biggest thing as to cleaning different things. I should cleanliness is hard to do on every single aspect. That's the main thing. Every dairy, no matter how hard you try, it can be difficult to maintain that. We try and do bleach disinfectant between things just to keep things clean, but it's always a challenge, I'll admit it.
Dr. Joe: Oh, absolutely. It's a big challenge. We're harping on it pretty strong here and painting it pretty black and white, but there's a lot of gray and there's no way around it. There's just going to be times when you can't get to all of it, and that's what we're trying to do, is reduce the dose that these calves see. We're just getting the numbers lower. They're never going to be zero, we know that, all the calves are going to be exposed, but we want it to be as low as we can. That's the purpose of being clean and dry.
Now, the only disinfectant that I've seen that seems to have some effect on Crypto, which is probably our hardiest of the big three that we talked about, [unintelligible 00:18:40], and Crypto-- Crypto is chlorine dioxide. That is a very, very versatile chemical. I really like it. It comes in different formulations, so you can make it a foaming agent or anything like that. It works really well. You can dilute it or make it more concentrated based on what you're cleaning. It's a really, really good product. That's something I would ask your veterinarian about. They should know that chlorine dioxide is. Really, really good product to be using when you're cleaning in between calves.
Equipment, Emily touched on that. There's a lot of different equipment that we use in relation to these calves and keeping that all clean. Again, I like chlorine dioxide because you can also use chlorine dioxide to clean equipment and anything that has contact with animals as well.
Brad: One thing, what about calf stress? We didn't mention that, trying to minimize stress when the calf is born, not moving the calf as much, or if you need to do it, do it fast and quickly and don't move them all over the place. I think stress is one of the worst things, too, that we see it even in ourselves. When we get stressed out, you have a chance to get disease, things like that. Reducing calf stress is a main thing that maybe we don't think about as much either, so it's a tough one.
Dr. Joe: I think there's two different ways to look at scours, in my mind. Scours, when it comes to stress and all those added things, you can look at it as like a cup that's filling up with water and the immune system of that calf is that cup filling up with water, and everything that you do that adds stress fills that cup up more and more. There's a capacity of that calf to handle it, but eventually, that cup's going to overflow and you're going to have an issue.
The other way to look at it is, every time we add stress, we're lowering the threshold that we need to find of bugs or pathogen particles that that calf can see before it then tips over and the immune system's overwhelmed. Like Brad said, we got to reduce any of that stuff. Handling, dehorning correctly, all that kind of stuff needs to be reduced and the stress minimized so that it's not affecting our immune system.
Emily: Also, thinking about the stress that different weather conditions have, too. When you're dealing with calves in the winter, what are you doing to prevent that cold stress and in the summer to prevent heat stress as well? Because if it's really cold, the calf is using a ton of energy to keep its body warm, and then when it's really hot, it's trying to cool down, and so I would wrap that weather-related stress into that as well.
Dr. Joe: That's a good point. Really good point.
Emily: I know, I'm very smart.
Dr. Joe: Yes. Well, most days. [laughs] All right. Well, I think we've covered it pretty quickly. We've been pretty succinct, but scours is a topic that we're going to come back to over and over again. It's an issue all the time, and on the beef side too, it's an issue every year. We deal with it all the time. We'll call it good there. Make sure you're getting in touch with us. If there's more you want to hear, check out the website extension.umn.edu, if you want to find something to reference, and with that, we'll catch you guys next week when we talk about beef scours and what to do in a beef-specific system. Thanks for listening, everybody. Catch you next week. Can you imagine how much that would burn?
Brad: Oh my gosh. That would have hurt.
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