The Moos Room™

[music]
[cow moos]
EMILY: Welcome, everybody, to The Moos Room, OG3 here, and we have another amazing guest. Another amazing guest that I found, to be clear, because I get the best guests. We are joined today by U of M Extension Livestock Team intern, Liz Krienke. Liz, welcome.
Liz Krienke: Thank you for having me.
EMILY: We're going to get a little bit more into about you, brief on your background, but first, every guest on The Moos Room has to answer two super-secret questions. It's been a policy, I think, since we started. Don't let Joe and Brad bully you. They're going to tell you there are right answers to these questions,-
Joe: There are.
EMILY: -and that is not true.
Brad: There is only one right answer per question.
EMILY: Liz, your first question. What is your favorite breed of beef cattle?
Liz: My favorite breed of beef cattle is Shorthorn.
EMILY: Oh, have we had any Shorthorns yet?
Brad: We have not.
EMILY: Wow. I like Shorthorns, too. That's a good choice.
Joe: Brad, that's brand new. Brand new.
Brad: That is. We--
Liz: I showed Shorthorns. That was my thing.
EMILY: Got it.
Joe: Oh, I see. I see.
EMILY: Love it.
Joe: Fine. We'll allow it as long as you showed them. Let's run down the totals quick on the beef side. That's eight for Angus still on top, Hereford's at six, Black Baldy at four, Belted Galloway at two, Scottish Highlander at two. Then, all with one Brahman, Stabiliser, Gelbvieh, Kenana, Charolais, Simmental, Nelore, Jersey, Normande, and Shorthorn.
EMILY: [sighs] Quite the miscellaneous list there. I know I bring it up every time, but I'm still stunned that Black Baldy has four.
Brad: I know, exactly.
EMILY: [chuckles] It's just incredible. Anyways, moving on to super-secret question number 2, which you may have figured out. Liz, what is your favorite breed of dairy cattle?
Liz: I'm going to be really basic and say, Holstein, because that's the only thing my dad let's us have.
Brad: We-- [crosstalk]
EMILY: I'm like, I know they have Holstein so I bet that's what she's going to say. Do you agree?
Brad: No, wrong answer.
Joe: Incorrect. Podcast over. All right, Holstein--
EMILY: Holsteins are really strengthening their lead here, aren't they?
Joe: Holsteins are in the lead with 13, Jersey's at 9, Brown Swiss at 5, Montb�liarde at 3, Dutch Belted at 2, Normande at 2.
EMILY: Boy, when do you think Jerseys are going to break double digits? Maybe they never will.
Joe: Hey, I just want to point out that you voted for Dutch Belted, so.
EMILY: [chuckles] Yes, exactly, so I can harass you about the Jerseys all I want. I'm Switzerland in this. I'm the Netherlands in this.
Joe: I guess so.
EMILY: I'm neutral. Now we can get into it that we have that important business out of the way. As I mentioned, Liz is an intern with Extension this summer. She is working with our livestock team, so she works with myself, Joe, and our other colleagues on the team, doing all sorts of different projects. Liz, why don't you give us just a quick 60-second background on you?
Liz: I grew up in my family's dairy farm near Lester Prairie, Minnesota, where I realized that I really love dairy, the people in the community, and all things agriculture. With that, I joined FFA when I was in high school, and that led me to going to college at South Dakota State University in Brookings, South Dakota. I'm a senior. It sounds so weird to say. I'll be a senior in the fall, majoring in dairy production with a minor in ag business. I'm heavily involved in Dairy Club. I'm the Dairy Club president this year, and so that takes up a lot of my time. I really love that. I'm just really hoping to stay in the dairy community following this internship and following my college career.
EMILY: It's pretty clear to see that we do not hire duds here in Extension. Liz has a very impressive resume, and I believe you were also a finalist for Princess Kay a few years back, were you not?
Liz: I was. I was actually a top-three finalist, and my butter is almost gone. We're still eating my butter from two years ago.
EMILY: Nice. What year was that too?
Liz: 2019, so yes, it would have been two years ago.
EMILY: Wow. Dang. It's my 10-year anniversary this year, so you just made me feel super old. Speaking of feeling old, Bradley.
Brad: I'm still here.
EMILY: As we were thinking about what we wanted to talk about today, and like I already said, you can tell just from Liz's very brief bio on herself, she has a lot of things going on. She's very passionate about being involved in agriculture and in dairy, moving into the future. We thought we would just have a little conversation today about that, about what the future of ag may look like. What is important to our young, our Generation Z workforce as they're coming in? I'm a dumb millennial as is Joe, so what do we know? I think Brad is from the greatest generation or whatever.
Joe: Bicentennial baby.
EMILY: [laughs]
Brad: Yes, Gen Xer- man.
EMILY: You're Gen X. Gen X. Liz, you mentioned your parents, I know that they farm, what do you see as some of the biggest differences between maybe the way your parents view farming and agriculture, and the way that you and your colleagues view it?
Liz: I guess there's a couple of things, and my parents would probably laugh when they hear this, as well as any of their friends, because it's really set in stone. A lot of people in my parent's generation or older, it was the man and the wife, or the husband and the wife, or the couple owned the farm. They farmed it, and they spend every waking moment on the dairy farm and not really in holidays, not really any days off, and they pride themselves in that, which is beyond ridiculous to me.
Something that I think is really different, and some people feel the same way as their parents, but as with me, I went to college and I was like, "Wow, that's not really how it has to be." It could be the female owns the farm and her spouse works elsewhere, or vice versa, or it's a brother and a sister that own the farm, or two sisters that own the farm. To keep it in the family, it doesn't always have to be you marry into it, you could earn the farm from another person.
That's really something that I think that still no one talks about it. No one talks about how are you earning that dairy farm. People always ask, "What do you want to do? What's my degree?" I really want to take over my parent's dairy farm, but probably not in a super traditional way. Maybe it would be me and my brother because I don't like tractors and he doesn't like cows, so it would be a good combination.
Then the other part of that too is the no days off situation, which is ridiculous because we've come to the point where if you're a sustaining dairy farm, you have that help, you have that support system, so that if you want to take that Saturday off, or that Monday afternoon off, or you want to take a two-day vacation, that's possible. It's also possible to take a Saturday vacation. Whether no one likes to admit that or not, all is possible. Something that I've learned as I moved away a little bit and just seeing things from a different perspective, is that my view on it would seem lazy to someone in an older generation for me, but in all reality, it's to prevent burnout. I would still like to be farming at 60 and not unable to do my job.
EMILY: I just love that. Joe and I, we are ready to jump all over this. So many things. First, I'm going to start with a thought that I've shared on The Moos Room several times in the past, and that is, there is no trophy for the person who suffers the most. That is something that I think really is a generational difference. Liz, I agree with you. I think even as a millennial or sometimes referred to as, oh, lazy, or we need so much time for us. I think that Generation Z honestly has it worse, and that's just because the old people, [clears throat] Bradley, they never valued themselves as the most valuable asset on their farm.
I think that now we're seeing this generational and cultural shift of no matter what you do, but I think especially if you farm, you are the most important asset on that farm. If you aren't taking care of yourself, your farm is not going to be well. I'm not going to say it's going to fail, but I think yes, we've all seen farmers that reach a certain age, and their bodies are broken down, they haven't experienced a lot of things in life. I agree with you, Liz, it is not something that's talked about enough. I think because, quite frankly, it's related to well-being and mental health, and those are always uncomfortable conversations.
Yes, farming is one of those things that is steeped in tradition. I grew up like you, Liz, I know Bradley grew up that way too like, you have your parents and your siblings and you're all on the farm, and the farm is life. When you find ways to move out of that, it can be challenging for the people who have never done that and think it's wrong. I think it's really insightful that you're willing to fight for that and for yourself and for your health, that's really important.
Joe: I saw Emily's eyes almost just lit up when Liz was talking about making sure she takes care of herself. Like anything, you're going to have to put your time in, especially early when you're starting something, it's hard work, there's long hours, but yes, you have to look at the long-term and prioritize how you're going to be doing that 20 years down the road, 30 years down the road? Are you still going to be there? Is your body going to be okay? Is your mind you're going to be okay?
I love that you're prioritizing that. It's also my favorite thing to see on social media. When I get online and I see a farmer that I know taking a vacation, instantly better mood. I feel so good that they figured out a way to get away from the farm, because when you come back, you're just that much more in love with the cows and you're recharged, you're ready to go. I'm super excited that that's how you feel about it. You talked about maybe owning it with a sibling, is that a real possibility for you?
Liz: Yes. It's not talked about super a lot because my brother is still only 17 and the next one is 10, but my parents are pushing him to do some sort of education and he just is like, "I'm going to work for you forever." We've talked about it, people will ask us in a public room what we're going to do, and I was like, "I don't want to farm, but I like cows." They'll be like, "Oh, so you and your brother?" I'll be like, "Probably, yes." My brother will be like, "Probably." It's never really been like, "Let's sit down and have this conversation," because my dad has a while yet and he is not giving up, and there's not really a place for us. There's not a place for me right now, to get paid what I want to do what I want. There's not a place for me, so I'm going to go do my own thing for a while, but it is a possibility, yes.
Joe: One of the things we talked about before we started recording here, is that your parents really encouraged you-- Not encouraged, but demanded that you go and work somewhere else before you came back to the farm. What's your thoughts on that? Is it a good idea? Is it a bad idea? What do you think?
Liz: My parents have this rule in place that if you want to come back to the dairy farm, mind you, I'm the oldest, so it's been like an unspoken rule for the most of my life, that you have to go work somewhere else. It was never really in question too. I was going to college. I was dead set, I was going to college. I wasn't really sure if I was coming back to the dairy farm till I was 17. Then I was like, "That's what I want." They really encouraged me to go to college and was never there to college visits, what kind of other education can you get? Not saying you need college education, but more just the continuing education to better yourself, and to get that networking.
Then, the other portion of it, where I'm going to try and work for someone else before coming back to my family's dairy is, my dad has said a couple of times, because he did it too, that what you do on your farm is not what has to always happen. There's so many things that my dad changed when he took it over, that my grandpa refused to do because that's just the way how it was done. Which is such a silly statement, because everything's progressive, and the only way you'll be sustainable is to be progressive. I really feel like that's an awesome thing to pursue, to see how other farmers do it. Maybe I love it, maybe I hate it. Maybe I really liked this portion of what they do, and not so much the other. Maybe I will learn so much that I don't want to come back, and maybe I'll learn just enough that I can figure out what's the right fit for me.
Joe: Are you at all concerned about coming back and having changes that you want to make and having that conversation with your parents? You said that your dad would maybe be open to it, but are you nervous for those kinds of conversations?
Liz: I'm not nervous about conversations where I know that I can show him that it would benefit our cows. For example, we're super heavily thinking about expanding our dairy and building a new facility. My dad is all about cow comfort and better life to the cows. Anything I bring to him that that would be better or anything like that, he would grab. He's not necessarily one of those farmers who's stuck in their ways or just is like, "No, we're just going to do this," so that part, I'm not nervous about. The part I would be nervous about would be, when it's still his farm maybe and not my farm yet, really, and I'm trying to value myself and my time, that might be one of those difficult conversations, rather than moving forward progressively. That's where I feel that makes me a little bit nervous.
Joe: I could see that. I could see that, because that's a, like we talked about already, a little bit of a generational difference maybe. It sounds like you got pretty lucky that your dad is so open to change and being progressive, so I think that's really good that you have that opportunity to bring some of those ideas and thoughts, and that that conversation is so open, because that's definitely not the case for everybody.
Liz: A lot of my college friends or people I've met at school will be talking and they'll say, "Oh, my dad or my mom, my grandma and grandpa." They don't want to do that because they see no point in it, and so that's always-- I don't know, that was a thing. I don't know, my dad's just always, and my mom too, both of them, they own the dairy together, always just been very much let's see if this will work for us kind of mindset.
Brad: I have a question about college kids, friends, in your age bracket, are they more into technology? Is that what they want to do? Is it more about technology and making it easier to farm today, versus older generations, it's all about hard work and grunt work and how many 5 gallon pails can I carry in my hand? Very physical labor. Is that what needs to happen in the dairy industry as we move forward? Because it's a lot of physical work, and I don't even like to do physical work some days either, but what are they saying?
Liz: I guess it's really dependent on, you will see how those kids grew up when you talk about it, you'll say, "We do this on my farm and I'd rather do this when I work." No, it's really 50/50, to be honest with you. There's still those kids that I'll meet at college, who we'll compare them to my dad like, we work harder, not smarter. That is what I tell people, which is so silly. I'm trying to break that, some things you can't do. You can do something better by hand but some technologies are great technologies, like a rotary dairy barn, or a automated feeder, or GPS planting technology. All of that is fantastic, and so that's been working out. Some kids, they grab that and they run. There's a huge precision ag program where I go to college, and that's something that is really unprecedented. More and more, as we just move forward here, I think that will become the mainstream thought.
Joe: I know Brad's happy to hear that, that there's some precision technology moving forward, and that people are interested in it and want more of it. There's a lot of people that are really wrapped up in the nostalgia of agriculture and farming, and I'm glad that there's people breaking out of that as well. It doesn't have to be all hard work all the time and there are good technologies to adopt.
That conversation leads into all the questions that I wanted to ask you, because a lot of that technology is expensive. I feel like you've had a really good relationship with your parents and your dad, especially, on having conversations about the dairy and what you're going to do in the future. How open, have you guys been about money, and having a conversation about the financial side, and how it works, and how he makes it work, and how he's made it work for so long?
Liz: It's open to an extent. I'll ask like, "Why couldn't we buy this calf barn instead of this?" Because, for example, my parents bought huts, and I looked at them like they're crazy, because I don't want to deal with it. According to them, it's going to work great, whatever you put two calves in them, blah-blah-blah. I had asked, "Why couldn't we build a barn?" The prices are so high. They told me exactly the numbers. If you told me numbers, I'm going to be like, "Oh, okay, cool." It's fail on both parts, I'm not super interested in it much less do they say, but we've had conversations where we talked about putting something in, say, like robots, but robots are super, super spendy. We really had to evaluate if that was right for us or if we could spend our money elsewhere to benefit more areas of our farm.
We don't really talk about, I guess-- Farming is so weird, because on paper, when I go to college, I can get financial aid because of my parents occupation, but the kid next door can see that my parents are going to drive a new tractor down the road, so how did we afford that? That's not really ever talked about. We don't really talk about super well-managing our money. Now that I've gotten older, and sometimes I'll ask questions, and they'll explain things or, "We work really hard, our production is super good," so that's part of our equation that some other families don't have, or how crop farmers can have so much money.
Especially going to college, we've had those conversations with my peers more too. When you're in high school, no one really cares. I didn't go to high school with anyone that lived on a farm, but now in college, we talk about, "How do your parents afford that?" or whatever. Then you make some justifiable decision about what your parents and their financials have going on. It's not super talked about. I guess, hopefully, more in this next year of college it can be, so that I'm not walking in the dark when I go out on my own.
Joe: That's what I see the most as one of the areas that we could improve as an industry. Beef, dairy doesn't matter. Being open about that financial situation and how that works is one of the ways that I see the transition between generations being the most screwed up. I don't know how else to say it. I think that open communication about how that works because I've seen a lot of amazing dairy and beef farmers that can crank production, but because they may or may not manage their money correctly or understand hedging and locking down prices and everything, like on that end, they don't reach their potential.
That open conversation would be awesome, if we could move that direction as an industry. I don't know how to get there. That's definitely someone else's area of expertise from the ag business management team. It sounds like the thing that makes you the most anxious as you go into maybe doing this on your own, is that right?
Liz: My family does the MDI team meetings where it's our vet, our banker, our farm business management person, our nutritionist, and the people from the creamery. I sat in on one of those last week, and I had never really listened to one before. I'd sat there and piped in about one or two things previously, but I sat there and listened to the whole conversation to know what's going well, what's not going well. That was like, "Wow, maybe I should do this more often," which is not feasible because I go to school three hours away. That really helped me understand how our farm's doing and where our farm's at.
I guess, including that next generation in those conversations is really important too. When we've been meeting with companies for a new building project, I don't want to be there the whole time, because I don't need to know all of it, but just some of those conversations are really good to listen to.
Joe: Those are some of my favorite meetings when I was in practice, sitting there in those team meetings with the nutritionist, the banker, the veterinarian, the owners, the manager, everyone in the same room. I looked forward to those meetings so much because I learned so much every single time I was in those meetings. Yes, those are the best places to learn. There's a whole section of the industry that we don't focus on as much, which is that the money side and really figuring out how to work that. If you can get in those meetings, maybe it is worth three three-hour drive home every single time, but maybe not.
EMILY: Yes. That brings up something that I think you've touched on already, Liz, of just for the potential next generation, they need to be involved in these conversations early. There are a lot of facets of the farm that I think sometimes the parents or the current farming generation won't necessarily share with the next generation. I find that that can cause conflict, and confusion, and apprehension about it.
Yes, I think it's-- I don't want to use the word fair, but I think it's in the best interest for everybody to make sure that if you do have kids or somebody from a younger generation that's interested in farming, bring them in on those conversations, have them come to some meetings, let them ask questions, let them see the paperwork, let them see the numbers. If you're trying to hide all that from them, and then you're just going to go, "Here you go," when they take over the farm or buy whatever, you're putting them at a disadvantage. You're putting your farm's legacy at risk.
I think that, yes, these are really tough things to discuss sometimes and tough conversations to have, but Liz, I think you're really hitting the nail on the head here just with, you want to be involved, you want to know, and that's going to help you prepare and be better for when this transition comes.
Joe: I didn't grow up on a farm, my dad is not a farmer, but I think about all the time, all the things I still haven't learned from him that he knows. It has to be even greater exponential when you have a farmer as a parent. There's so many things to learn. There's probably a bunch of things to learn that your parents, it's a second nature to them, but you might not know. If you don't start having those conversations, you're not going to find those things. Those are the kind of things that are usually the biggest source of tension when there is a transition or you're trying to work together, because they're thinking, you know it, and you might not. I see that all the time. Yes, any chance you can get to soak up information and knowledge from that previous generation is, and the one before that too, if you have that option, just amazing opportunity.
Brad: What does the future of the dairy industry look like from your perspective? Open your crystal ball, I want to see you, what do you envision--?
EMILY: What a mean question.
Brad: I'm curious, I want to know. I'm curious.
Liz: Okay, that's a really vague question because--
Brad: Of course it is, of course, but I'm the professor, I'm supposed to ask that question.
Liz: Honestly, the farms that are doing really well right now are probably going to continue. They're going to find ways to be sustainable. They're going to make projects to make them move forward. Getting all of those things done right, making sure that they're employing people in their community, and they're going to be huge drivers of our economy still. Then, the other part of that conversation is those areas that maybe are struggling right now in 2021 might just still struggle and not be able to pull through, just because-- Another part of dairy that is super, super big now, that no one likes to talk about, my dad hates, is the social media aspect of it.
People who are sharing their story and explaining to others how their food is being produced, and it sounds so silly, but I got my nails done yesterday and they're asking me and my mom like what we do for a living, and mind-blowing situation. They just had no idea how that works, how cows get milked, how cows get cared for. It's so much more than, are you caring for your farm? Who's running your farm? Part of it is, is how are you sharing your story? How are you going to the grocery store and talking to the person in the dairy aisle? Or are you attending things in your community to talk about why you're doing it?
Because the more that our economy grows and the more people you have moving into your communities, they're not going to understand why you're hauling manure down the road and it stinks in front of their house. They're not going to understand you spreading manure on the field, or your cows got out on the highway last night. They don't understand that, unless you talk to them about it.
With our situation, our neighbors, they had cows or their parents had cows, so everyone understands, but you move to a more urban area or you're in a situation where you're sharing your story on social media, you have to be able to explain those things. I think that the future of dairy relies on us openly talking about everything. How we treat our cows is really important. People are all about antibiotic-free products. That's everything you're going to buy in the store, but because of labeling, it's really hard and really detrimental on farmers. Agus Dairy has a really bright future if the people that are my age are promoting it in the right ways.
This is the dairy princess in me just going on for days because if you put a microphone and a camera in front of my parents, they're going to be like, "Yes, this is how we milk our cow." If you ask me, I'm going to be like, "These are the steps we use to milk our cow. It takes 48 hours to get from the cow's udder to the grocery store, and I'm super pumped about it." It's super important that we're sharing these little tiny tidbits so that people ask more, because there's such fewer and fewer dairy farmers. In America, we need more people to speak up for us because there was people in my high school class that didn't understand what happened on my dairy farm.
To me, that's a huge thing. They have no idea where their milk is coming from. I went on a spring break trip this year with some girls from college, and they told me that they didn't know there was dairy farms in Florida. All of these things are just super eye-opening to me. That's where I think we really have to focus if we want to have bright future. We have to take care of our animals and our land well, but we have to tell people how we're caring for our animals in our land, or we won't have any land or animals to take care of.
EMILY: Those conversations are critical to the future of the industry. It's not just about farms and farmers, it's absolutely about those consumer relationships too. There you go. Bradley, how does her crystal ball prediction sit with you?
Brad: I agree. I think that's what's needed more. It's the younger generation that's going to do it. I think, keep doing what you're doing and it'll all work out, because that's what we need, we need everybody to do it.
Joe: I love the answer that acknowledging there's fewer and fewer farmers, which means that everyone has a bigger and bigger share of the responsibility to share that story and to talk about it. We're really lucky because in Minnesota, we still have a pretty big ag community and there's a lot of people that did have some connection to the farm. I still run into people in the cities all the time where they find out what I do and they're like, "Oh yes, my grandparents had cows. I used to help milk." I'm not going to say that there's a lot of young people that tell me those kind of things. It's going away. That connection to agriculture is getting less and less and less. Yes, I don't know. There's nothing else to add to Liz's response at that point.
EMILY: That's probably a really good place to wrap the episode on. Those were poignant and profound thoughts, I think, Liz. This has been a little bit different conversation than we normally have on the podcast, but we like to throw those in every now and again. Liz, thank you again, so much, for joining us again. This has been the EMILY, joined by Extension Livestock Team intern, Liz Krienke. Thanks so much for sharing some of your opinions about what agriculture and farming looks like moving forward into the future. If you have questions, comments, or scathing rebuttal, you can send those to themoosroom@umn.edu.
Joe: It's T-H-E-M-O-O-S-R-O-O-M@umn.edu.
EMILY: You can find us on Twitter @unmmoosroom and @umnfarmsafety. Be sure to check out our website, extension.umn.edu. We will call that a wrap. Byee.
Joe: Okay, bye.
EMILY: [laugh] Oh my God, Joe, when you were talking about that thing, like parents not telling you all the things that they know, the only thing I could think of is how I never know how long to microwave things for. When you're home, you always ask your mom, "How long should I microwave this spaghetti for?" Now, as I've gotten older, I've realized she's just pulling those numbers out of thin air. Now I'm like, "Oh, my God, now I need to know how long to microwave things." One of my nieces and nephews asked me--
[cow moos]
[00:31:19] [END OF AUDIO]
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