The Moos Room™

00;00;11;03 - 00;00;41;01
Brad
And welcome to the Moos Room. Today is something that's happened. Hasn't happened in a while. We have a guest today. It's just Brad again. Emily is lost in the extension world. I think she's still at the state fair. Three weeks from three weeks ago. I don't know where she is, but, alas, maybe she'll come back one day. But we have a guest today, and it's, my colleague in extension here at the University of Minnesota, Jim Salfer.

00;00;41;01 - 00;00;43;29
Brad
So welcome, Jim. Thanks for joining us today.

00;00;44;01 - 00;01;00;09
Jim
Thanks, Brad. But I feel honored if you haven't had guests for a while. And I think you're right for anybody that's listening, Emily Trachtenberg loves the state Fair. So I'm not sure Brad's off when he said she might still be at the state fair, hoping it starts up again. I mean, she loves the state fair.

00;01;00;12 - 00;01;19;07
Brad
That's right. Okay, so we haven't had a guest in a while, so we have two super secret questions for all of our guests that we need to discuss. First. So your first question is what is your favorite breed of beef cattle?

00;01;19;10 - 00;01;38;27
Jim
Man, I wasn't expecting that. You know, that's a good question. And hung around beef cattle a lot. I suppose I have to think of something that's. I don't know if it's unusual. I want to say Angus, but I don't think that's right. You know, I will say. I'll say Red Angus, because that's what my brother in law raises.

00;01;38;28 - 00;01;45;07
Jim
He's a rancher out in South Dakota, so he raises Red Angus. So that's be my favorite beef beef breed.

00;01;45;09 - 00;02;15;24
Brad
That is that is acceptable. So we I have a list. We'll run down the list quick. For those of you that have forgotten about our list. So here we go from all time. Black Angus is number one at 19 Herford 14. Black Baldy five. Scottish Highlander five. Now red Angus at five. Sharla four. Shorthorn three. Simmental two, Belted Galloway two, Brahman two and all of these with one.

00;02;15;24 - 00;02;39;22
Brad
Galva Keaney, a new Jersey Holstein, Belgian Blue Brangus, Piedmontese white Pak, miniature Scottish Highlander and a Charlotte Red Angus cross. Oh so yes, we have had a lot of guests and lots of variety. Of course, the second question is probably you probably know what this might be. What is your favorite breed of dairy cattle?

00;02;39;25 - 00;02;40;03
Jim
I will.

00;02;40;03 - 00;02;43;19
Brad
Warn you, there is a correct answer, but.

00;02;43;22 - 00;03;00;08
Jim
Well, knowing you, I even suspect that might be Jersey. But you know what? And I think I'm in the minority. It is black and white Holsteins. I think they are a hard beat breeder to beat. I never understood this whole craze with the red and white, but I just like black and white Holsteins and.

00;03;00;11 - 00;03;21;21
Brad
That is acceptable. We will go with black and white today. So here are the numbers for dairy. Holstein still in the lead at 28 now. Jersey at 20. Brown Swiss 39. Mount billiard three, Dutch Belted three, Guernsey three, Ayrshire three, Milking Shorthorn three and Normandy two.

00;03;21;24 - 00;03;23;14
Jim
Well, there's a lot of them on that list.

00;03;23;14 - 00;03;44;26
Brad
There is a lot and a lot less diversity in the dairy world than we saw the world. But alas, we we move on. So what we wanted to talk about today was kind of, Jim has done a lot of work with robotics and automated milking systems in the past. Kind of wanted to talk a little bit about what's going on.

00;03;44;27 - 00;04;05;20
Brad
I think, those of us here in extension, you know, and I talked to some farmers, we're seeing lots of farms put in robots, but we're also seeing farms take out robots, for lots of various reasons. And kind of wanted to talk a little bit about what's the status of robotics in, in the dairy world and where might be going in the future.

00;04;05;20 - 00;04;12;06
Brad
So what are you seeing out there, Jim, from a robotics standpoint and farms that are thinking about robots?

00;04;12;08 - 00;04;32;26
Jim
Well, I think you summarized it pretty well. I think there's I mean, there's still going in at a pretty rapid pace throughout the upper Midwest or even kind of nationwide. But I think people are, questioning where they really fit. I think you've got to encourage farms, as I'm talking with them about them to really think about what their long term goals are.

00;04;32;26 - 00;04;56;18
Jim
I think that's really important because I think if your long term goals are to really be a large, large dairy, I think there might be, better options. And primarily we're speaking probably these rotaries. I think one of the challenges people don't forget about, and I talked about this more now when I talk about robots is it isn't box robots or a traditional parlor, right, Brad?

00;04;56;23 - 00;05;21;02
Jim
I mean, now we can automate these parlors. And if, you know, I look at a lot of the economics and a lot of this is just, kind of modeling, but I tried to get as accurate information. When you start automating these rotary robots, in particular with pre sprayers and pole sprayers, they are so efficient. It's just really hard for anything to compete against those.

00;05;21;04 - 00;05;40;06
Jim
So I think you're seeing more of the larger farms really looking at that option too, and saying, you know, I'll build a rotary and I'll automated and for kind of these in-between farms, I think I if there's anything wrong with these box robots, clearly there's some advantages to them. You know, cows stay in the pan over the entire period of time.

00;05;40;08 - 00;05;54;07
Jim
I think that's a that's a really nice option for them. You can you can really target milking times of course sets or not target milking times but target milking frequency. That's kind of a pro and a con right? Brad. Some cows don't read the box.

00;05;54;14 - 00;05;55;10
Brad
Yeah, right.

00;05;55;12 - 00;06;22;01
Jim
I mean, these are producing cows. Some are only going to go in twice a day and those are kind of the idiosyncrasies that you're just gotta learn with the robots that all cows aren't going to behave like they are. The other tricky, challenging, thing is I have a fair number of calls in nutritional. So call me and say, well, what's the key when these visits drop or when something happens and the robots don't perform like they should.

00;06;22;03 - 00;06;41;00
Jim
And that is really a challenge to troubleshoot. And I think some people get, sometimes kind of frustrate with that because you'll see visits drop, you know, they'll be going along at 2.7 or 2.8, pick the number 2.9, and all of a sudden they'll drop to 2.3 or 2.2. And of course when they do that you lose milk production.

00;06;41;03 - 00;07;03;19
Jim
It's milking frequency. And that can really be a challenge for both the owner and the farm, to troubleshoot. So so I think there's lots of reasons. It's like, the old hype cycle, right? People are all hyped on this technology. And after a while, kind of the reality sets in. There are very good technology. New robots are better than the old ones.

00;07;03;26 - 00;07;22;21
Jim
We're getting much better at designing barns. We're getting much better at nutritionists deal with them. But you still do have more repair costs than you're going to typically have in our parlor. So I think that's one of the things that I think sometimes frustrate people, too, is higher repair costs. And probably a little higher feed costs. And you.

00;07;22;21 - 00;07;25;13
Jim
Well, in a typical TMR situation.

00;07;25;15 - 00;07;48;03
Brad
So, so what we talk about repair costs, you know, there's lots of numbers that are floating around. You know, maybe years ago was five, 6000 a robot per year. What is that in range or is it more is it more expensive now because there's a lot more technology on these robots? Or is it still kind of in that 5 to 10,000 per year on a robot?

00;07;48;06 - 00;08;03;29
Jim
Yeah, I think that's and that's all over the place. Part of that determines how much the owner is willing to do. You know, I think this 5 to 10 is kind of on the low side when I've actually got data from farms. And then over and over time it goes up just like anything else. Just like your car.

00;08;03;29 - 00;08;25;23
Jim
Brad, I know you purchased old cars. I bought drive old cars. My repair costs are higher than when they're under warranty. And so I tell people, you better figure on 10 to 12,000 per robot. It's going to be less than that when they're under warranty. There's no doubt it's going to be less than that. But once the warranty comes off, I think you better and you better plan on that.

00;08;25;23 - 00;08;50;21
Jim
Increasing 500 to $1000 per robot per year. So is that a lot? Well, I don't know. I guess it depends on what you compare it to. They are, you know, robots milk 24 hours a day. So any kind of equipment that you use, 24 hours a day is going to have higher repair costs. And so, and the robot companies are doing a much nicer job of training the farmers.

00;08;50;21 - 00;09;11;19
Jim
So a lot of that will depend upon how much labor is yours. They're not that, from what I understand, I've never fixed a robot, but farmers will say they're not that hard to fix. You know, it's there's not that many different parts, but did you know that can be a real challenge? Is not only fixing them, but taking the time to fix them, to.

00;09;11;21 - 00;09;32;11
Brad
Think about nutrition wise. You know, you said before that nutritionists are learning more how to feed these cows with the robot. What is maybe there is no ideal way to feed cows in a robot, but what are nutritionists learning out there and how to feed these cows? You know, most of them are. Obviously you have a a PMA or partial TMR, and then you're feeding some grain in the robot.

00;09;32;17 - 00;09;38;04
Brad
What what is what is going on out there? What is probably the average person doing?

00;09;38;07 - 00;09;56;07
Jim
Well, that's really changed over time, too. Initially, when robots came over from Europe and Europe, just as a really different system than we did. I spoke in rural Europe a few years ago, and there were a couple of farms I went to. These were all on farm meetings, a couple of farms. They fed zero grain in the bank.

00;09;56;09 - 00;10;22;21
Jim
They just have a little different philosophy. They tend to put grain feeders in their barn, and they tried to feed all of their grain or pellets through the robot. And so that was the mindset of the robot companies when they came here, because they're all European. And that's really changed over time. Now, most of our farms will feed less pellets than they used to, or actually cutting back on, that number.

00;10;22;21 - 00;10;40;11
Jim
Partly because of cost, partly because cows can't eat that fast. They just can't eat that many pellets, right? Cows can only be even pellets. They can only eat about a pound a day. If it's a meal, they can feed about a half a pound. You're seeing more farms feed meals through robots. That was a big craze last summer.

00;10;40;13 - 00;11;00;11
Jim
And it kind of comes and goes some farms. And I don't know why this is. Some farms have really good luck with a meal. Other ones really struggle and tend to go back to pellets. But I think that is a kind of a, balance of, I want to feed in the robot. It's always a good question.

00;11;00;11 - 00;11;22;04
Jim
Do you have a pellet? Do you feed two feeds? Do you feed three feeds? You know, our data shows that multiple feeds is a little bit better because then you can target fresh cows a little bit more, but it's not necessarily something you have to do some farms to keep costs down or just feeding corn gluten pellets. They work pretty well.

00;11;22;07 - 00;11;52;01
Jim
Really successful farms feeding Gordon gluten pellets and brown corn with a little bit of amino acid added to it. Some are just feeding one pellet, so I think it's kind of all over the place. I think for me, I think I would personally still feed a pellet because we know they work. I know it's going to be a little bit more costly, but meals come with some challenges in that you need vibrators on your, you need vibrators on your pipes and your flex pipe so it doesn't get hung up.

00;11;52;03 - 00;12;12;28
Jim
But I just think pellets really work pretty well, and I think they're a pretty consistent kind of, I shouldn't say foolproof. But I do think people are feeding less pellets. They clearly are feeding less pellets or less robot feed than they have in the past. And I don't know if anybody has a good feel of what affects visits to the robot.

00;12;13;00 - 00;12;23;07
Jim
From a feeding standpoint. Like I said, people have tried different starch levels. I think there's a lot of theories, but I don't think anybody's quite got that figured out. Yeah.

00;12;23;09 - 00;12;44;26
Brad
I agree, there's probably not a magic bullet at all, because if you go to every every farm is different. Some are pellet, some are meal, some are doing this, some are doing that. And they I think probably what it comes down to is what works for their farm, what's most cost effective. And that's what they're going to stick with versus trying to do what is suggested or what what the neighbor is doing anyways.

00;12;45;02 - 00;12;47;27
Jim
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah I think you're right Brad.

00;12;47;29 - 00;13;11;23
Brad
So I, I'm intrigued about this particular question that I get from farmers that I've talked about, and I've thought about it myself. What about used robots? I've been on some farms that are, have have put in use robots, you know, and we both know there's some dairies that are, are 20 plus robots and they're taking them all out.

00;13;11;23 - 00;13;23;29
Brad
So should farmers put in use robots as well? Is that a good, cost effective way to get into robots, or are we just asking for trouble putting these robots?

00;13;24;01 - 00;13;41;02
Jim
No, I don't think so. I mean, the robot companies are going to obviously update them. There's, farm that I worked with. They've got eight robots. They're all used. They paid, they just happened to be lilies, and they were. They bought them. This was I mean, they've had them for now, for probably 15 years or so.

00;13;41;02 - 00;13;59;25
Jim
This was quite a while ago. But they, they were paying probably about 70,000 for them, at that time. And of course, brand new robots are running for 200,000. I was on a farm just pretty recently that's going to purchase a used robot. And this one, this one is like 2 or 2 and a half years old.

00;13;59;29 - 00;14;21;06
Jim
So it's not an old robot. They're going to buy that for about 50, you know. And I know all the time you get it in, you're probably going to have about a hundred thousand. So you can at least double that price. But I think it's a really good option. When they were brand new, I was waiting for these from used ones to become available because I think it's a really good option, especially if you don't have a lot of money.

00;14;21;06 - 00;14;38;25
Jim
If you're a young producer, you're really wanting to get into robots, but I think there's good robots out there. Usually the dealers are go through them all completely and update them. You know, you're probably going to not be under warranty, so you're going to have some higher repair costs. But I think it's a good option for a lot.

00;14;38;26 - 00;14;46;26
Jim
That's what I'd probably be looking at pretty hard. I looked at I know a farmer that's doing well with his robots, so they aren't as good, but he paid 25,000 bucks.

00;14;46;27 - 00;14;47;20
Brad
Well.

00;14;47;22 - 00;14;57;01
Jim
Now that was a few years ago. They're working fine. They were an old model, but he put two robots in. He's got $50,000 in them. I mean, that's that's a pretty good price.

00;14;57;01 - 00;14;59;14
Brad
It is hard to put in a new parlor for 50,000.

00;14;59;14 - 00;15;00;24
Jim
Exactly. Yeah.

00;15;00;25 - 00;15;13;03
Brad
I want to get on that. So yeah. But you know the use robots. It's it's a, it's a thing, you know, because we used to talk about. Oh well we'll just put in robots later. The price will eventually come down on the new ones. But I don't think they really have.

00;15;13;05 - 00;15;21;15
Jim
You know, I used to get that I used to get that question a lot. And my temporary response was, do new tractor prices ever come down?

00;15;21;18 - 00;15;23;01
Brad
No. They keep going up.

00;15;23;04 - 00;15;42;27
Jim
Exactly. I don't know why we should not anticipate that robot costs are going to come down. They're going to get better for the same cost or for a little more. Right. But to really expect the cost of technology to come down, they're not going to be like cell phones or computers or the cost of come down and cell phones.

00;15;42;27 - 00;15;45;22
Jim
Maybe we could argue that, but they do get better, right?

00;15;45;28 - 00;16;13;28
Brad
Yeah. Well, what about robotic rotaries? You know, I've been exploring that here just for our own sake. And our research center is trying to figure out. What do I put in with robots? Do I put in a robot rotary? I know there's some that have those here in the US. Or do I go to a box robots and have a batch milking type, system because you're batch milking with the robot rotary.

00;16;13;28 - 00;16;34;05
Brad
So any feelings on our. Are we just too? Maybe we're just too early to talk about robot rotaries. And they're not far as advanced, technologically as what maybe the boxes are or where where do we sit with that? Because we can go out to a lot of farms that have rotaries and it's like, well, why don't they just have robots on those?

00;16;34;08 - 00;16;58;10
Jim
You know, that's a good question, Brad. I think I think the companies and I'm not privy to their information, but I know there's a number of companies that we're looking at, actually, and I don't know where this was an Israeli company looking at making a retrofit robot for a parallel parlor. And I don't know where that's at. I was in I made some beta testing for the last several years, so I'm not sure they're ever going to get it to market.

00;16;58;12 - 00;17;19;28
Jim
But I would guess the companies are working really hard at trying to automate rotaries. And we've right now we have post dippers right? The post sprays after the cows are done and we've got pre sprayers and those just like robots are getting a lot better. I know Brad, you and I have been to some farms and some of those early post sprayers.

00;17;20;01 - 00;17;42;05
Jim
Everything got sprayed except for the teats. I think the whole parlor was, brown from iron nine. I just sprayed wherever, and so they've gotten a lot better. So I think if we're a little bit patient, I think we're going to get a lot of technology that's going to come in to that's going to come in to rotaries are one of the things.

00;17;42;05 - 00;18;02;29
Jim
I read an article this had nothing to do with robots, but it was our milking robots. It was just on robots. And this was maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And and said one of the things that that any robot is really struggles with is something that takes really good eye hand coordination. You know, robots just struggle with that versus stacking bags.

00;18;02;29 - 00;18;25;08
Jim
Think of, think of a stack or something that's automated or a welder. When you're doing the car part comes, the welder goes to exactly the same time over and over and over again. It doesn't that part doesn't move around. And that's one thing that I think it's been a little bit of a challenge. Not that we haven't overcome it, but I don't do think it makes them a little slower and a little more complicated.

00;18;25;11 - 00;18;49;02
Jim
So I think we may have, in the future where somebody is in the robot just putting on units and the prepping and everything, maybe be done in the cup, or I think we may be pre spraying. I mean, that's what we've got already. Right. And then you've got a person wiping the teats dry attaching the units. And those robots are so efficient.

00;18;49;05 - 00;18;57;02
Jim
And that's I think where some of these box robots on larger farms really struggle to compete with these semi-automated parlors.

00;18;57;04 - 00;19;18;03
Brad
Yeah, I agree. And, you know, when we were at a precision dairy conference here in Minnesota in early June, I can't remember right offhand, but didn't go was introducing something where they could take your parlor and put some automation in them and kind of, I wouldn't say convert it over to automatic milking, but get it, a lot more technology.

00;19;18;03 - 00;19;26;22
Brad
So it was closer to an automatic milking robot than it was just having a bunch of people milking the cows and prepping them and all of that.

00;19;26;22 - 00;19;38;29
Jim
So yeah, I think that's what we're going to. I think that's what we're going to see to save labor, because in reality, labor is going to keep getting more expensive and it's going to keep getting harder to find. It just is.

00;19;39;01 - 00;19;44;21
Brad
I agree. And I you know, I go back and forth about that all the time here on our dairy.

00;19;44;21 - 00;19;46;28
Jim
We're yeah, you've got expensive labor.

00;19;47;00 - 00;19;47;16
Brad
Or.

00;19;47;16 - 00;19;48;18
Jim
Reasonably.

00;19;48;21 - 00;20;08;11
Brad
It is expensive and we're trying to figure this out. You know, I switch back and forth for a while. I was in robots and then I went back, nope. We're going to have a parlor. We're going to, you know, put teat sprayers at the ends. One person is just going to attach units and call it good. But now I'm kind of moving back towards, maybe I should just put robots in and, you know, batch milk.

00;20;08;13 - 00;20;21;11
Brad
I can pay a high school kid to come up, bring the cows up, milk them, and then they go back to pasture or wherever else they're going. So I kind of change a lot based on the flow and labor and.

00;20;21;13 - 00;20;43;02
Jim
Well, one thing I think with the batch milking option you're looking at, I think it's easier to find labor because people are more willing to do it. You know, I think putting people in a pit, even if they're just attaching units, is not a very appealing job. As you said, versus finding a high school or somebody to come out and you're kind of encouraged, even if they have to chase them through the robot.

00;20;43;02 - 00;21;01;10
Jim
I just think it's a lot more appealing job for people. Right? So I think that's something else we kind of have to think about. Can you find the people? Even if we automate these pits, can you find somebody to be in them versus the option you're talking about? And I, I think a lot of people are going your route for that reason.

00;21;01;10 - 00;21;05;21
Jim
You there's just a bigger pool and people don't mind doing it.

00;21;05;23 - 00;21;33;21
Brad
Yeah. Yeah I agree. Well so I'm also been thinking about maybe. Well here's just your thoughts opinions. We there's been a lot of people talking and we might go see a all automated farm. You know, if you go to Europe there's a lot of automation happening. You know, one person is you got a robot, you got an automate TMR, TMR mixer, you got an automatic cat feeder, everything's automated.

00;21;33;23 - 00;21;47;29
Brad
Do you think we're going to see that here in the US? More and more? I know there's a few farms. There's even some right here in Minnesota that are doing it where it's going towards all automation. So very, very little labor through of the dairy industry.

00;21;48;02 - 00;22;13;04
Jim
You know, that's I think it might depend upon what your goals are as a farm. I think if you're, smaller and that's debatable. Right. Maybe that's 500 cows, maybe it's a thousand cows. I don't know what smaller is anymore, but I think in if you're kind of set my challenge with that is it typically ties up so much capital that it takes so long to pay those back.

00;22;13;04 - 00;22;35;06
Jim
You can't grow very fast if you have kind of semi-automated or if you have, a barn and I you got to run the cash flows on these. But I think that's one of the challenges with these really automated farms. If you're if your model is to grow and grow and grow, I think it takes you a while to pay off.

00;22;35;06 - 00;23;01;15
Jim
Even if a cash flows, it takes you a while to pay off those farms. I had a good a farmer that was a friend of mine, and when robots were just kind of coming out and what he did is retrofitted are really cheap cheap parlor into his barn. And he just kept adding cows and he said, boy, I just think if I would have done that and invested all this money in robots, I would have never been able to grow because I could have never got the capital right.

00;23;01;18 - 00;23;10;01
Jim
So I think part of it is how much capital do you have if you if you capture your capital? Brad, maybe you can use your money to expand. I don't know, maybe you can't land.

00;23;10;01 - 00;23;11;10
Brad
But maybe, maybe.

00;23;11;13 - 00;23;31;27
Jim
But but I think that's a challenge. I mean, that's a decision I think I would make. If you want to continue to grow, then you got to keep your capital costs down. If you're kind of set and you want to be a family dairy, and you got 2 or 3 brothers or sisters and you can swing the cash flow, maybe that's a really good option for you because it it does save a fair amount of labor.

00;23;31;29 - 00;23;55;09
Brad
Yeah. So what is what is Jim's crystal ball in the future? Are we going to see more automatic milking going in these dairy farms? You know, some I wonder, you know, I don't like it to be. You have to put in robots to survive. But are we going to see this into the future? Are we just going to have more robots on farms?

00;23;55;09 - 00;24;08;20
Brad
And and is this what the future of the dairy industry is here, whether it's in Minnesota or other places, around the country or. Yeah, we're still trying to struggle. Figure that out where technology fits.

00;24;08;22 - 00;24;26;07
Jim
Well, my prognostication is kind of when you listen to economists, they're going to be wrong, but they might get you in the right direction. You're right. I mean, you know, that's economists are never right, but they sort of maybe get you in the right direction. So I think, you know, I think about this a lot because I get this question a lot.

00;24;26;10 - 00;24;58;20
Jim
So I think we're I think we're still going to have, we're still going to have primarily probably parallel parlors. But I think a lot of those are likely to be retrofits and existing barns. I think new barns are probably going to be the larger ones are going to be rotaries. I think if you look at the efficiency of a rotary and they may or may not have the sprayers on them, and they can always be added, I think smaller farms, you're going to continue to see robots go in them.

00;24;58;23 - 00;25;18;04
Jim
I think that's what we're going to be. I think we're also going to see combinations. I think we're going to see large farms that might have a rotary, and then they might build. And there's a lot of these out there already. They might build a robotic barn and then put there, I'll call them good robot cows in that rotary on that robots.

00;25;18;06 - 00;25;37;26
Jim
And they're so efficient because you can you kind of cheat in a way, right? You kind of pick and choose and put your really good robot cows in. If they struggle at all with the robot or their fetch cows, you move them back to the parlor. And so I think those are kind of the three models that I see out there for, for people that are updating.

00;25;37;26 - 00;26;00;27
Jim
I mean, we're going to continue to have ties our barns, we're going to continue to have parlors. But I think for people that are looking at new milking systems, those are kind of I think the three options, I don't know quite where the batch milking systems fit in that Brad was talking about. If you're not familiar with it, you know, there are the big rotary automated robots, but there's also some companies out promoting box robots.

00;26;00;27 - 00;26;19;21
Jim
So you just put a bunch of box robots with a holding area behind them, and those cows walk through the robots and they're so they're batch milking. That's not a free floor guided flow system. Right. And I'm not I honestly, do you have an opinion, Brad, where they might fit in the future of milking systems.

00;26;19;23 - 00;26;50;18
Brad
But I, I think I'm all in favor of batch milking. Actually, I think that's going to become even more important. I think a lot of people are going to start going more towards a batch milking type system than we are. This kind of free flow, guided flow stuff, because if if you don't and I think about it from a capital perspective, if you don't have enough capital to retrofit a barn, do all this stuff, add a new holding area, but you might have to add some new holding areas, but put your robots in, bring the cows up, batch milk them, and then send them back wherever else they're going.

00;26;50;18 - 00;27;04;20
Brad
I think in my opinion, I think that's where it's going to only strengthen the robots and stuff and, you know, spending a lot of capital on retrofitting and putting new barns up. I just don't think we can afford it right now.

00;27;04;22 - 00;27;26;17
Jim
I brought the other advantage of that is you can you manage the barn like you always have? You don't need to have a PMA. You don't have these issues because you're milking the cows when you're telling the cows to be milked. Right. As you said, in a free flow system, you got to put up with these, any mandated flow system kind of the idiosyncrasies of cows that decide not to go in.

00;27;26;19 - 00;27;53;28
Jim
The other advantage or robots we don't talk about is if you if you put in a big rotary, you've kind of got to have the cow numbers to match it. You can kind of be modular with robots, you know, whether it's a bad system or another system. But in your bad system, in theory, you could put in five robots and then, in five years or ten years, either build another barn and put in five.

00;27;54;04 - 00;28;13;14
Jim
Whereas if you build a great big rotary, typically you want to get that full in a hurry. Right? And so you're a little bit, you know, you're a little bit hamstrung there in that. You need to have the cow spaces to fill that rotary pretty rapidly. So, yeah, there are some other advantages of, robots that we maybe didn't talk about.

00;28;13;17 - 00;28;33;02
Brad
Yeah. And I think, you know, my biggest problem with batch milking is people are could say, well, you're not maximizing robot time. You know, you're bringing the cows up to milk 2 or 3 times a day. Of course, the robot's going to sit empty quite a few hours during the day. So but I don't know what it depends on each farm.

00;28;33;02 - 00;28;49;01
Brad
It depends what the labor situation is. And if you can make it work for for us here, I think, and other farms, I've seen batch milking. I think it's the way to go. It's probably not for everybody, but I think it's an option for farms to think about.

00;28;49;04 - 00;29;02;26
Jim
Yeah, I think there's, you know, there's a lot of those. That's one thing that's a little different about the dairy industry that we're lucky to work in. Brad. I mean, if you're going to be in the swine industry, there's I assume it's still the same as when I used to work in it. But it's pretty. It's cut and dried.

00;29;02;28 - 00;29;19;04
Jim
Same thing with poultry. I mean, they it kind of is the way it is, you know? So what? So, Brad, would you, would you put, something out in your, your pasture or how would you curse if you batch milk? It doesn't matter. You just bring them up some pasture like you do now, and you just batch milk instead of running them through a parlor.

00;29;19;04 - 00;29;21;21
Jim
So for you, in your situation, it wouldn't change.

00;29;21;24 - 00;29;40;18
Brad
For our situation, it wouldn't. And that's why I'm sort of thinking about batch milking is if you have a pasture based herd, I think that's where batch milking is probably going to fit, other herds. If you, you know, if I was willing to spend a lot of money in retrofitting a barn, then maybe put in the regular robots.

00;29;40;18 - 00;30;02;10
Brad
But I don't know, the batch milking still intrigues me. And, especially from a large sort of robot rotary standpoint, obviously. But, yeah, you know, it it it's it's. But tomorrow you might ask me if I might be back to a parlor with no robotics, I don't know, I, I change, every single time. One thing I can't get over is, man, all of this stuff is expensive.

00;30;02;11 - 00;30;10;12
Brad
No, man. Yes. Putting in robots, a new parlor or anything. It's just how do you pay for all that and make it work?

00;30;10;14 - 00;30;21;03
Jim
Yeah, it is tricky. And, you know, its margins have not been getting wider. You know, milk production keeps going up. And I said it has to go up because margin per 100 keeps shrinking.

00;30;21;04 - 00;30;21;24
Brad
Right.

00;30;21;26 - 00;30;38;20
Jim
And so that's it is it's really hard I'll tell you this isn't for the faint of heart. I sit with farms and bread. You probably work with farms too, that are thinking about these decisions. And I think sometimes they look at me and they'll they'll feel bad because it's like, oh, man, you must think we just can't make a decision.

00;30;38;22 - 00;31;04;17
Jim
I said, I get nervous if you can make this decision fast because this is a whether whatever you're going to do, it's an expensive decision. So you've really gotta make sure it's the right decision for you. And you're you're kind of tied. You're you're tied. You know, you're you're tied up with that decision. Right? It's not like you're going to build anything a single purpose building like that, and you're going to get out of it in a year or two, right?

00;31;04;19 - 00;31;21;18
Jim
I mean, it's a major decision for people. So I would encourage people where, you know, any kind of milking system to really think it through and what is the best system for you and doesn't have to be what your neighbor did, as you said, Brad, you know, it might not be what your neighbor did that might not work for you.

00;31;21;19 - 00;31;39;17
Brad
Okay. Well, thank you, Jim, I appreciate you joining us today and kind of chatting about robots and where are we might go and what's happening in the status of the industry on robotics. So we appreciate that. And, you are welcome back anytime. On our podcast.

00;31;39;19 - 00;31;41;23
Jim
All right. Thanks, Brad. Appreciate it.

00;31;41;25 - 00;32;07;05
Brad
So with that, we'll, wrap it up. If you have any comments, questions, or scathing rebuttals, feel free to contact us at the newsroom. That's mos r o m@urman.edu or find us on the web at University of Minnesota Livestock Extension or UMW Rock dairy. And with that, catch you next week. Bye.