The Moos Room™

[music]
[cow moos]
Joe: Welcome to The Moos Room, everybody. It happened, it finally happened. It's not just me on the podcast. Emily is here.
Emily: Woo. Gruesome, twosome.
Joe: Gruesome, twosome. You don't have to listen to just me anymore. I know everyone's super excited about that. I'm excited about that. I was getting bored of listening to myself.
Emily: Joe, I will say I speak for Bradley and myself when I say thank you. It's been a crazy few weeks as you guys all know, it's just that time of year and we were having trouble getting our schedules coordinated. Joe, I'm glad you were willing to just go, "I'll record some. I got it." Really takes the load off some time, but I am looking forward to the OG3 being back together. Next week, maybe?
Joe: Maybe, I think next week next.
Emily: Soon we will be back together.
Joe: Yes, I think that's the way it works. Brad's traveling today. We do know where he is. Not a true crime podcast, so no worries there. He there sent a picture this morning of him alive and well in California, rubbed in the weather a little bit. We know he is his normal Bradley self.
Emily: He's touring dairies so we assume he's actually working.
Joe: We're excited to all be back together. This is the time of year just like for all the farmers out there, we get busy with harvest and everything else going on. It's just we're running around like crazy. I'm not alone today and that's the important piece.
Emily: [laughs] I'm actually glad that it's the two of us for this episode, Joe, because we were thinking of topics for today and Joe actually picked this one and I'm really glad he did because I have very little knowledge on what's happening with it. That is the new or the upcoming, I guess I would say FDA guidance about veterinary antibiotics. That was a really crappy intro of it because I don't know all the wording. Joe, perhaps you can more eloquently give us the name and just the briefest of overviews of what this is.
Joe: Yes, for sure. This is a topic that we're starting to get questions about more and more. Some people are hearing about it and we needed to go over it. Something that started back in 2021. FDA came out with the Guidance 263, which basically says that all medically relevant antibiotics that are over the counter currently in the livestock and the agricultural world will no longer be available over the counter. They will need to be available as a prescription from your veterinarian. That's basically the gist of it. The reasoning behind it is long and boring, but really it comes down to an attempt to reduce our progression of antimicrobial resistance.
This is something that is in conjunction with some of the things they're doing on the human side as well. They're not just targeting the agricultural world or our world of veterinary medicine. There's a lot of things going on on the human side as well to try to reduce antimicrobial resistance or the development of it. This is just one of the things that they've identified that they can do. It's really not a new concept at all because this is something that's been happening in California since 2018. That's the big change. There's a couple of other changes we'll get to in further episodes, but the biggest change is that over-the-counter antibiotics are going away.
Emily: I have a lot of questions. I guess I'll start with one and that is, is this similar or moving in the same vein as the veterinary feed directive that came out a few years ago? I forget when that is. Is this the same thing of creating this veterinary client relationship, that type of deal? Compare and contrast briefly if you can.
Joe: Yes, it's very similar. The VFD or the Veterinary Feed Directive, basically what happened with that is that there was some movements to say we don't want antibiotics in the feed at all, period. We want to take them away completely. When that movement got some traction, the response was to compromise and say, "Hey, we need those things. We need them and we want them to be available to farmers and producers, and so we're going to put them under the direction of a veterinarian." That was the compromise that was made. This is very similar.
There's a lot of people that don't understand agriculture and would like to take the tools that are necessary for us to produce healthy and safe food away. The compromise is to say, "Hey, we're going to put everything under the direction of a veterinarian so that it has a little more oversight and hopefully will be used a little more judiciously." That's the reasoning behind everything. Very, very similar, but basically it's just our over-the-counter antibiotics that are available now will still be available just as a prescription from your veterinarian.
Emily: You can't just walk into the feed store or wherever the vet outlet and get them. That leads me to my next question. Again, I heard about this upcoming guidance a while ago, a few months ago. It was like many things when they talk about things related to drugs, whether it's veterinary or human or whatever, I don't always know what all actually falls into that category. Joe has so kindly provided me with the list of all of the products that would be included under this. There's a lot on here that I forgot when I made my first mental list. I guess, Joe, could you run down the big ones that are related to cattle production, beef, and dairy, that people should be aware of will be impacted by this?
Joe: Yes, so the big ones that we think about right away are penicillin and oxytetracycline. Those are the two injectable antibiotics available right now that are just going to be available only through prescription through your veterinarian. I want to clarify this before we get too much further. It doesn't mean you have to buy them from your veterinarian, but you do need a prescription to purchase them wherever you purchase your medications. Penicillin and oxytetracycline are the two that we think about.
Penicillin in every form, and then also Oxytet more we think about LA 100, 200, 300, any of those things are going to be prescription now rather than over-the-counter. In addition to that, some of the other more common things that we think about are any of the sulfa drugs, like Albon or Sustain or Sustain III. Those are medications that we typically rely on for certain things, especially when we're talking about coccidia. Those things are going to be a prescription as well. Then really notably, especially for our dairy friends are some of our treatment tubes like today and tomorrow are now going to be available only as prescription medication.
Emily: I guess my next question will be, I'm trying to picture myself, I am a cattle producer. I already have a vet, they come out, they do her checks regularly, et cetera. I have that preexisting relationship. What would I need to do? Will my vet just automatically give me the scripts when the guidance is effective? Do I need to ask them about it? How does that work if I already have a veterinary-client relationship?
Joe: The key word is the veterinary client-patient relationship that VCPR needs to be in place. You have to have a vet that you regularly see that comes to your place physically at least once a year and knows your system well enough to make decisions, and can follow up on decisions that are made. That goes two ways as well where you're agreeing to follow that veterinarian's instructions. That needs to be in place. If that's already in place, it depends on where you get your medications.
If you're buying your vet medications through your veterinarian, it'll be really straightforward. Almost nothing will change because everything will come exactly like it already has been through the distributor or your veterinarian itself. Just like all your other prescription medications. It will change if you are getting your medications from somewhere else. That process should already be in place already for all our prescription meds.
It'll just be that these meds, you'll have to communicate with your veterinarian that these meds need to be added to your prescription packet or however you guys handle prescriptions from a third-party dealer of medications. That's really the only thing that'll change. Yes, you're going to have to communicate to your veterinarian that, "Hey, this is what I need on hand and this is what I use." The tricky piece will be when you do that, there's going to be some conversations about how you're using drugs and whether or not that's appropriate.
I think you're going to see that there's going to be some butting of heads between clients and veterinarians about how medications are used and really, are we up to date on the best usage of each product and why we're using those products in each specific location or in your system. Yes, not a whole lot will change except you just need to talk to your veterinarian a little bit more.
Emily: Yes. With that conversation might be a good time to have your records handy. Just another reminder to be keeping good records so your vet can have a clear vision of what you're using and how you're using it. It can maybe help you make some different decisions or change strategy a little bit. My next question is similar to that, and I know it breaks your heart, I know you feel strongly about this, but there are people out there who do not have a regular vet for whatever reason. They might have an emergency vet who's come out for something.
For folks that are maybe in that boat what do you recommend? I know that it's different in every area. It is also going to depend on availability of vets. What are some tips or some advice you would give people who are thinking I don't have that relationship with a vet? I want to be able to still get these medications so I need to make it happen.
Joe: I think that the key is to not wait till the last minute. This is happening in June of 2023. Over-the-counter antibiotics are no longer going to be available June 11th, 2023. If you wait until June to try to get ahold of a veterinarian, get a VCPR, everyone's going to be doing the same thing and you're going to be waiting for that before you can get drugs. Talk to someone now. Start building a relationship. Find someone. They don't have to be out on your place every week. If you have 10 head of cattle and you need to keep some Oxytet around for whatever reason, pink eye, foot rot, whatever it is, then talk to someone now. Get a relationship going. They can be on your place once a year and that counts for a visit. Then anything else can be over the phone, follow-up questions if you have them, things like that, that's fine.
Most of it is just getting ahold of someone now and doing it ahead of time so that you're not waiting around and looking to get on the schedule and having someone have to tell you that we're booked three months out and you're going to have to wait. That's the biggest thing. We've talked a lot about on this podcast the lack of access to veterinarians or potential shortages in certain areas. We covered that in a podcast episode not too long ago so I don't think we need to get into that, but really it's just get in touch with someone now. It doesn't have to be overly complicated, but having someone out once a year and then someone available to answer your questions is all we're really looking for.
Emily: I think that's great advice, especially because like I mentioned there's a shortage of vets, and I know in some areas of the state, large animal vets are few and far between. I think getting on this early, especially if you are going to have to connect with the vet who is farther away that gives both of you time to schedule in advance for them to come visit. It's going to be difficult, but I think, and Joe, I guess you can tell me if I'm wrong, I think most vets want to be able to make this work for producers.
They don't want to make it more difficult. I think part of that is yes, getting in early and saying like, "Hey, I know this FDA guidance is coming up. 263 is coming in June and I want to get ahead on that. I haven't had a veterinary client-patient relationship." That's okay. Again, I think most vets are really willing to work with people, but you also need to give a little and connect with them early. Start thinking about it now. That's going to make it a lot easier for you and them when June does come around.
Joe: That's what it really comes down to is that everyone wants to be able to help you out with this. We totally understand the need to have antibiotics on hand and we're not looking to make the process hard or difficult unnecessarily. I think this is a good thing, having a little oversight of how things are done. Honestly, I think it's going to save some money for a lot of producers. When we start reviewing some of these protocols and where antibiotics go, why they're used, and what they're used for, I think we're going to see that we're going to use less, which is the point and that's going to save people money. I think you're going to see less antibiotics used and a lot more conversations with that veterinarian to try to help streamline flow and solve problems in a management way rather than with a needle.
Emily: Joe, I know you mentioned that this is going to take effect in June. Do you know any more details on how it will work, like after the set date? Yes, you'll need to get prescriptions from then on, but can people still be purchasing products up until that date or how will the implementation of this work? What will that look like?
Joe: Some of the products have already phased out in preparation for the label change, but yes, products are going to be available up until the date. The temptation is going to be to go out and hoard some of these products and that's your choice. I don't think it's a good one and I think it's pretty selfish to go out and hoard medications if you're going to then cause a shortage for the entire industry and people that need them won't be able to get them, but that's still everyone's choice. I think some of the companies are just phasing some of it out now in preparation for having to change the label anyway. Everything's going to be available right up until the date I would assume. You can go out and buy it just like normal until that date and then after that, you won't be able to.
It's still going to catch some people completely off guard despite it being in the news and everyone trying to talk about it and you're veterinarian talking about it and us talking about it here. Some people are going to get caught off guard and be angry and that's fine. Same thing happened with the VFD and we worked through it just fine, and everything runs super smooth now. I don't think it's going to be that big a deal, but yes, I think there's going to be some people that hoard medication and try to buy as much as they can before the date. I don't think that's the right decision, but it's going to happen.
Emily: Yes, I think you're right there. I would say we encourage you if you need to get some, get what you need. I understand that, but this will be a change like you said already, Joe. If you're prepared, if you're already talking to your veterinarian about this, and if you do get your medications and other items through another vendor that's not directly your vet, talk to them about it now. Ask them what their process is going to be so that again, you can be prepared and know what it's going to be. If maybe you aren't going to go out and purchase products before the end date, but you know you'll have to purchase them soon after, you're ready when that comes and there won't be any snags or hiccups for you.
Joe: The important thing to note too is that this is a cattle podcast. We talk about dairy and beef, but this is affecting every species. We're talking pigs and poultry and sheep and goats. It's all of those. Don't think it's just cattle. If you have a flock of backyard chickens or you raise some sheep and goats as well, it's going to be the same thing. All over-the-counter antibiotics are going away, so you need to think about this farm-wide regardless of species.
Emily: This is just an Emily personal curiosity question. Are there any changes related to this with any companion animal drugs or those are handled totally separately?
Joe: Yes, companion animal antibiotics have always been prescription, so there's nothing really over the counter that's available. Are there people that buy agricultural antibiotics and give them to their pets over the counter? Of course. It's not really an issue.
Emily: They shouldn't be doing that, right, Dr. Joe?
Joe: No, they should not be doing that right now at all, but it does happen. Especially, if you have a kitty ranch like some people's parents do.
Emily: [laughs] Who could that be?
Joe: It happens quite frequently.
Emily: All right. Did you have anything else you wanted to cover on this?
Joe: No, I don't think there's much else to cover. This is pretty straightforward. June 11th, 2023, over-the-counter antibiotics are gone. You got to talk to your veterinarian, do it now. Do it early, get a VCPR in place so it doesn't catch you off guard and you're not stuck waiting for an appointment when everyone else is trying to get this under control. There's really not much else to say. What's up, everybody? This is Dr. Joe Armstrong. I was totally wrong. There was definitely one more thing I wanted to cover. Slipped my brain at the time. Here's what it is.
This FDA guidance will not affect parasiticide medications. All your deworming agents, all of those things not going to be affected by this. Also not going to affect any of the things just like VFDs not going to affect our ionophores. Those kind of things. If you're not, you can still deworm, and you can still feed ionophores, not affected by this FDA guidance. Let's get back to the show.
Emily: Don't say we didn't warn you.
Joe: Exactly.
Emily: All right. Well, I think we are going to wrap it there then for this week's episode. If you have any questions, comments, or scathing rebuttals about today's episode, you can email that to themoosroom@umn.edu.
Joe: That's T-H-E-M-O-O-S-R-O-O-M@umn.edu.
Emily: If you have a question or comment you would like us to address on a future episode of the Moosroom, you can also call and leave us a voicemail. That number is 612-624-3610. You can find us on Twitter @UMNmoosroom and you can find us online at extension.umn.edu. Bye. Joe, you're dumb.
Joe: Thank you.
Emily: Was I a little pitchy or was it okay?
Joe: It sounded great to me.
Emily: [laughs]
[music]
[cow moos]
[00:20:27] [END OF AUDIO]

1